Memorandum by Colonel Dan Bryan of an interview with Leopold H. Kerney

Memorandum on Frank Ryan

The Minister began by stating that he had had to be careful lest his despatches fall into other hands than those for whom they were intended, but that nevertheless he had sent pretty complete reports on the Frank Ryan affair to the Dept. of External Affairs – these reports give chapter and verse regarding dates, etc., whereas now he would have to trust to memory on these details.

Ryan had one particular friend in the U.S.A., one Gerald O'Reilly, who was in communication with the Minister, but did not know that Ryan had escaped. The Minister had not known Ryan before he went to prison in Spain, except that about ten years ago in Paris Ryan wrote to him regarding a lady who claimed to be representative of 'L'Oeuvre' – the Minister instituted enquiries, and in fact discovered that the lady's claim was unfounded. When writing to Ryan to this effect, the Minister took the opportunity of informing him also that on the matter of the independence of Ireland he saw eye to eye with him, but not otherwise. When the Minister was first asked to take steps regarding Ryan, it was extremely difficult to do anything, as the Government of General Franco had not yet been recognised by the Irish Government, the Minister was living in St. Jean de Luz, in France, and hence had no official status.

Ryan was taken prisoner by the Italians – if he had been captured by Spaniards he would have been put to death immediately, as there was an agreement among the Tercio that no prisoners would be taken by them. Ryan's name became fairly well known in Spain, mainly through General O'Duffy, who wanted to paint Ryan as black as possible. An Irish-American journalist named Kearney told the Minister at St. Jean de Luz about Ryan, saying that he was a thug, etc., – all these stories about Ryan being an assassin, etc., which for a long time were believed, were later proved false. One night in the Bar Basque at St. Jean de Luz, the late Tom Gunning¹ had dinner with two American journalists – after some drinks Gunning began to talk loudly about a certain Irishman in Burgos, who had committed seven assassinations, and said, 'I've pleaded – gone down on my knees – to the Spanish authorities to shoot him'. At the next table was Miss Donnelly, the Minister's secretary,² who reported the conversation to the Minister. Gunning at the time was persona grata in Burgos, and also a close friend of the then British representative, a man named Hodgson,³ who apparently had been asked by quarters in England to inter- cede on Ryan's behalf.

The Minister telegraphed to External Affairs enquiring was there any truth in the allegations that Ryan had committed assassinations in Ireland. He then sent a note to Burgos, referring to Gunning by name, and refuting the allegations against Ryan.

There was at the time in Burgos one Meade,⁴ of Mexican-Irish ancestry – his grandfather was General Meade – who was with the 4th Navarre Brigade. He always helped Irishmen – on either side. The papers of Irishmen were usually handed to him, and he had torn up several papers in order not to incriminate their possessors. The Minister got in touch via this Meade with General Lopez Pinto, then C.C. Burgos district, who would have to sign all documents authorising executions in his district. Meade got an assurance from General Lopez Pinto that he would never sign Ryan's death warrant. Hodgson was supposed to be interceding also on Ryan's behalf, but was a relative of the late Rear- Admiral Somerville,⁵ and was convinced that Ryan had killed the latter. General Lopez Pinto told Meade that he was indignant at Hodgson's attitude regarding Ryan. It appeared also Hodgson had wanted a Colonel Martin, an Englishman in Burgos with connections, to do some very dirty work, the nature of which the Minister did not specify.

The Minister got Colonel Beigbeder, who was then Foreign Minister, interested in the Ryan case. He then discovered that General Franco had given orders that nothing should be done in the Ryan case without his express permission – it appeared that some commitment had been entered into, perhaps with Hodgson, by General Franco, which prevented the latter from releasing Ryan.

A large number of telegrams were sent from Ireland to Burgos and to Madrid, pleading against Frank Ryan.

The Minister had a Spanish friend, a lawyer,⁶ who had been in the National secret service, and who was still in contact with the German secret service – he had a German friend in Madrid, who was running a wireless shop, but was the head of the German Gestapo.⁷ Early in 1940 this Spanish friend suggested to the Minister, 'why not try the Germans? Perhaps they could even get Ryan in a submarine to Ireland'. The Minister had no means of getting a decision on that matter from the Dept. of External Affairs so he took upon himself the responsibility of telling his Spanish friend to go ahead, but instructed him to keep the name of the Irish Minister to Spain out of it. The Spanish friend returned very jubilant, and said 'yes, they are interested, they have been authorised to do something from Berlin'. The Clissmanns⁸ (Mrs. Clissmann – Budge Mulcahy – was interested in Ryan because he had at one time been engaged to be married to one of her sisters) had apparently been taking steps on behalf of Ryan, and whatever steps they were taking coincided with the request made from Madrid to Berlin.

The Spanish friend said that there were two lines of approach to Franco, one via the Germans, and another. As nothing seemed to be happening, the Minister after some time told his Spanish friend to go ahead and use the second line, which was apparently via a German, the Minister thought in Morocco, who was persona grata with Franco – he was not in the Gestapo, but was capable of being used by the Gestapo. The Spanish friend told the Minister that this German had seen Franco, who had told him to return for a decision on the matter in two days; later this German said there was a hitch, some reason why Franco could not pardon Ryan, but would arrange for him to escape, which course would secure the desired end without interfering in whatever commitment Franco had entered into. Franco further said that he was giving instructions to the then Chief of Police, the Conde de Mayalde, a man of confidence of Sr. Serrano Suñer, and now Spanish ambassador in Berlin. Mayalde explained to the Spanish friend that on a certain date he would send to the prison at Burgos his secretary and two members of the personal bodyguard of Serrano; this was at twelve o'clock on Saturday, 12th July. At two o'clock on the same day the Minister set out for Burgos prison and informed Ryan of the arrangements. The Minister had seen Ryan fairly often since being accredited to the Spanish Government – at first every two months, and then every month or six weeks. Ryan said that he had heard that Seán Russell had left the U.S.A. for Germany, and was wondering was Russell working against him – he had a distrust of Russell to that extent. The Minister told Ryan he wanted to discuss several things with him, but that the relationship of prisoner to visitor was not a proper one for such a discussion. Ryan spoke very freely, and in English – this privilege had been granted him. The Minister formed a very favourable opinion of Ryan, he was an idealist and a man of very high principles. Ryan was first and foremost anti-British, and was eager for the return of the six northern counties. When speaking of Germany, the Minister used the 'whips and scorpions' metaphor, and gathered that under no circumstances would Ryan do anything underhand.

The Spanish friend told the Minister that he wanted to go to see Ryan with a German friend named Winzer or Winzner, who would like to have a talk with Ryan. This was arranged. Later Ryan told the Minister that Winzer or Winzner put him certain questions, and spoke in such a way as if he had his lesson by heart; he was very fair, and asked no commitments of Ryan, who said 'I've been waiting for this visit for two years'.

The Minister arranged with his Spanish friend to be in a car outside the Burgos prison, which is some distance from Burgos on a very bad road, at two o'clock on the morning of the 'escape'. In another car were two members of Serrano's personal bodyguard, the secretary of Count Mayalde, and a German, probably Winzer or Winzner. After some time the Spanish friend noticed the car pass with one extra person on board. He then set out for Irun, and waited at the international bridge; a car or cars passed at about nine in the morning, and Frank Ryan made him a sign of recognition. He 'phoned his office in Madrid, which relayed a message, couched in some such terms as 'all is well', to the Minister. The German brought back a note from Ryan, probably written at St. Jean de Luz, but the heading and date had been clipped off, thanking the Minister for his efforts.

The Minister decided to wait some time before making any further move. His Spanish friend told him that the Germans were rather puzzled that the Minister was not enquiring for Ryan. The arrival of a letter from Gerald O'Reilly, conveying the news that Ryan had escaped gave the Minister an excuse for enquiring of the Spanish authorities. The Foreign Office informed him that Ryan had been transferred to a prison in Northern Spain; whence he had escaped on a certain date, not the date of his release from Burgos. Some time later the Minister got a letter of thanks from Ryan, posted in Lisbon but dated about a month before the date of posting. 'Budge' Clissmann also wrote to the Minister that she had seen a friend of his. The minister is of opinion that Ryan was to go to the U.S.A. via Siberia.

On his return to Ireland the Minister, at the suggestion of the Taoiseach, visited the parents of Ryan. Finding them both in very precarious health, he telegraphed his Secretary, Miss Donnelly, in Madrid, to write to Budge about her 'cousin's' parents' health. Miss Donnelly replied that on the 12th inst. a letter from Budge's cousin had been handed in at the Irish Legation in Madrid.

The Minister stated that, apart from the matter of the commitments mentioned above, the greatest difficulty about Ryan's release was the fact that, having left Spain, he had returned thither; Ryan told him that he had gone to Spain originally because General O'Duffy had gone out on the other side, and he returned to Spain because he had heard that General O'Duffy was with- drawing, and he intended to withdraw his Irishmen, but that then things were going badly, and he felt bound in honour to remain.

The above is based upon notes taken as the Minister was speaking, thrown into narrative form, but each paragraph is in the order in which it was spoken, rather than in chronological order of events. It is desired also to point out that though the name of the Minister's Spanish friend was mentioned by him twice, he mentioned it with such caution that it was impossible to ascertain it.

After discussion on the memorandum, the following points were added:

The Minister had no doubt that Frank Ryan went willingly to Germany and was apparently anxious to collaborate with the Germans on some basis; there is, however, in this regard the Minister's opinion recorded above which is to the effect that he did not believe that Ryan would do anything underhand but would be inspired by his desire for the return of the Six Counties as part of the national territory. Any co-operation with the Germans was apparently to be with this object in view.

The Minister could throw no light on the whereabouts of Seán Russell but he was given to understand by Ryan while the latter was in jail in Spain that Ryan knew that Russell had left the States for occupied Europe. The Minister could not say how Ryan was aware of Russell's movements.

With regard to the reference to Russell in the Hayes 'confession', the Minister said that an old friend of his – Art O'Brien – former Minister to Paris – rang him up recently and asked him to go and see him (O'Brien). O'Brien told the Minister that it was alleged that the Irish representative at Lisbon had something to do with handing over of Russell to the British and when O'Brien pointed out that there was no Irish representative at Lisbon it was then suggested that the Irish Minister at Madrid had something to do with betraying Russell. O'Brien replied that he knew the Irish Minister at Madrid and he had no doubt that the Minister would never be associated with such an action.

Towards the end of the discussion, the Minister revealed that he had a conversation with Miss Annie Farrelly at the Gresham Hotel. This lady was a close friend of Seán Russell and she had no news and was very anxious about Russell's fate. The Minister did not state whether he met Miss Farrelly by appointment or otherwise but it was thought that the meeting was previously arranged.