Letter from Seán Murphy to Joseph P. Walshe (Dublin)¹
(Secret)

I was received by General de Gaulle on Saturday, March 24th, at the Hotel de la Résidence in what was described as 'a private audience'.

I found the General in manner rather cold. His voice is rather harsh and he speaks very deliberately. He rarely looks at you. He stares straight in front of him. He seemed to me to look older than when I saw him in November, though he appeared much less nervous.

When I sat down, having shaken hands and presented my respects, he said 'I understand, Minister, you have been in France since 1938'. I replied that that was so. Whereupon he said 'You should be able to form a better opinion on things in France than most people'. I said that I certainly would not flatter myself to that extent.

I then said that I was charged by my chief, Mr. de Valera, to present to him his best wishes for his personal wellbeing and to transmit his hopes to see France very soon retake her place amongst the great nations of the world.

To that he replied that he was 'very touched' by Mr. de Valera's messages and he asked me to transmit his thanks and his good wishes. Ireland and France, he said, had always been friendly. There was no reason for quarrel between them. He hoped that, after the war, the economic and cultural relations between the two countries would become closer. We shall all need our friends after the war. He expressed his great admiration for the Taoiseach and the manner in which he had kept his country neutral.

I then asked him what were his hopes of the San Francisco Conference. He said with a sad smile 'Of course, there will be a document. The atmosphere is not good; not nearly as good as in 1919. There is great rivalry amongst the United Nations. We don't know where we stand. England', he said, again with a smile, 'is always England. I don't think for an Irishman I need add any more. America, as far as President Roosevelt is concerned, is very interested in the affairs of Europe and the East. It is difficult to know to what extent his views are shared by the American people. I personally think they don't know what they want, but I think that the possibility of their retiring from European affairs, as they did in 1920, is not to be excluded. Russia is another question mark. I had hoped that, when Russia had cleared her country of Germans and arrived on her 1939 frontiers, she would be satisfied and start rebuilding her own country. But, with the turn events have taken in Poland, Roumania, Hungary and Finland, it is hard to know when or where her appetite will be satisfied. The whole situation is very confused and far from satisfactory. The relationship between the Allies is very different from that in 1918, so that the future is full of possibilities.'

I then asked him if he foresaw the end of the war in months or weeks. 'I don't like to make predictions', he replied, 'but I should say months. The Germans are still strong and will fight very hard. From the French point of view, we are not in any hurry. In fact, months would suit us better than weeks. In six months' time, we hope to have an army almost as large as the British in Europe. This will be of considerable assistance to us in regulating a number of questions which will have to be decided after the war has ended in Europe.'

He then, without any lead from me, talked of the situation in France. He said that, as he was sure I was aware, the situation was very difficult from every point of view. France had suffered first of all the defeat of 1940. Then she had to undergo four years of occupation and the disastrous effects of French policy during that period. After that she had to endure the inevitable destruction and suffering which liberation entailed. But, notwithstanding all that, he was confident that France would overcome all her difficulties. He was convinced that, whatever the differences of opinion between Frenchmen on the question of ways and means for the re-establishment of France (redressement), there was unity on the fundamental point that her re-establishment must be accomplished and that what France held must be defended against all comers.

The General then said he was very happy to make my acquaintance, which I took as a signal to depart, and added that I probably knew a number of officials in the Foreign Office who would, no doubt, help me in my mission, which he felt sure would be accomplished in the best interests of both countries.

One could say, on the whole, that the interview was cordial. I thanked the General for his cordial reception and took leave of him. He had me conducted to my car by one of his Aides, and, when I arrived at the door, I found that the guard had been turned out and presented arms. He apparently intended by that to give some official touch to what was otherwise a private audience.

My general impression of the General at close range is that he is rather cold in manner, possibly due to shyness; that he is of a nervous temperament and that he is rather touchy. He gives one the impression that he considers he has a mission towards France. I can imagine that he might be very difficult in negotiations.