Memorandum from Joseph P. Walshe to Eamon de Valera (Dublin)

Taoiseach, Minister for External Affairs.
Sir John Maffey asked me on Wednesday, 20th June, what the decision was with regard to the internees.

I told him that you agreed in principle to the transfer of the military internees to Germany and release there in accordance with the proposals already discussed between us. I suggested that they should all be taken together, as it seemed advisable not to allow the departure to become a dragged-out affair.

He said he would advise his people to send a ship to Dublin which would take the whole group to Germany.

He returned to the question of the Athlone internees and again displayed a certain eagerness to have them handed over.

I told him it was not the Government's intention to release the Athlone internees who had, in effect, committed a crime against this country. At any rate, they would be held for some considerable time. On the other hand, if any of the Athlone group expressed a desire to go back to their country of origin in the hope of finding their own authorities less severe than ours, the Government here would not raise any objection.

Sir John Maffey came to see me this morning in the office to discuss again the handing over of this group. Apparently he had received further instructions. He said that the continued presence of these men in Ireland would be likely to cause political trouble between the British and ourselves. And, he added, the Americans were also taking an interest in the matter, and Mr. Gray was getting worked up about it. This point, he went on, was said in confidence, and he asked me not to give him away to Gray.

I insisted that it would be extremely difficult for us, from the point of view of our sovereignty, to hand over men who immediately and directly had committed an offence against our laws, and the result of whose activities would have been to cause us serious trouble in our external relations. We could only hand them over if they expressed the desire to obtain their freedom by an appeal on the spot to the authorities in their own country.

I tried to ascertain from Maffey whether it was a question of getting information from these men, but he rather kept insisting on the political trouble that would arise from our keeping them.

I asked him would it completely satisfy them if we promised to keep them in prison so long as they were in this country.

He thought that suggestion would be a great help in his further talks with the authorities in London. He hoped, however, that we would see the possibility of an unpleasant political situation arising as a consequence of keeping the group in this country, and he hoped that we would not continue to take such a rigid view of our sovereignty and would hand them over on a promise from the British that their lot would not be worsened. He felt that your statement with regard to preventing the use of this country as a base of attack of any kind against Great Britain could be regarded as implying the intention to hand over this class of internees.

I frankly do not understand the British anxiety to get hold of them. The reasons given seem inadequate, but the fact that they do attach importance to the matter is borne out by the nature of the committee which specially sat on the question when Maffey was in London last week. He told me this morning that it was presided over by the Lord Chancellor and that several of their important legal men were present.

I am awaiting a note from him confirming the arrangement about the military internees, but it may be deliberately held up to see how far we are going to advance on the other question. There was no mention today or on the 20th of the Legation personnel.