Confidential report from John J. Hearne to Frederick H. Boland (Dublin)

'Conversation with Mr. Brooke Claxton Minister of National Defence and Acting Minister for External Affairs'

I have the honour to report that I had a long conversation with Mr. Brooke Claxton¹ at a dinner party given in honour of Mr. Ernest Bevin at the Country Club on the evening of the 3rd October. (I enclose the table plan).²

We spoke about many things including the visit of the Irish Delegation to the Bigwin Inn Conference³ and the speeches of Mr. Claxton and Senator Hayes in Montreal on the 25th September at the Unveiling of the Plaque on the Vault of Thomas D'Arcy McGee.⁴ We spoke of the Atlantic Pact: the Pact was part of the burden of the speeches made by Mr. Paul van Zeeland, Mr. Schuman and Mr. Bevin in Ottawa in the past few days. In the course of the conversation I ventured to say that it was a pity that the whole of Ireland could not be brought into the Pact as a unit. It would complete the moral front and round off the strategic frontier of the Atlantic community. Mr. Claxton stopped me at once. He made a gesture of dismissal. 'Don't try to sell me that', he said sharply. 'You people had your chance of coming back. You refused to join us. You passed up your opportunity. I don't want to fight with you personally about this. But, Heaven's sake.' - He broke off, and turned away to his right hand partner.

When it was time to talk with me again we spoke of the flowers and the autumn leaf decorations on the table.

You will observe the precedence of the High Commissioner for Ireland at this function from the table plan. He is too near the top of the table for the liking of the Canadian Department of External Affairs at functions at which speeches on the Pact are made. That is one reason why the Department desires a change. My successor, no matter what his title, will be the junior representative at State functions amongst Ambassadors and High Commissioners. If his title is that of Minister he will be lower down still. Under the present arrangement Ambassadors and High Commissioners precede Ministers Plenipotentiary.

Conversation with Mr. Bevin

The British High Commissioner Sir Alec Clutterbuck⁵ and Lady Clutterbuck held a reception on the 4th October at 6 p.m. at 'Earnscliffe'⁶ for Mr. Ernest Bevin and Mrs. Bevin.

The High Commissioners and their ladies were invited for 5.30 p.m. to meet the British Foreign Secretary. As two of the High Commissioners (Mr. Forde⁷ of Australia and Mr. Thorn⁸ of New Zealand) were away I had a longer conversation with Mr. Bevin than would otherwise have been the case.

I congratulated him on his fine speech at the Canadian Club luncheon, that day which I had attended. Mr. Bevin was very easy in his manner and looked extremely well. He spoke very kindly of the Minister, if not quite as warmly as had Count Sforza ten days previously at the Italian Embassy. He expressed his satisfaction at our membership of the Council of Europe and his regret that we had stood outside the Atlantic Pact and gone outside the Commonwealth. 'If you had come into the Pact,' he said, 'the defence problem would be out of the way'. 'You feel, Secretary of State', I said, 'that unity would be in sight through our membership of the Pact'. Mr. Bevin smiled (he was smiling most of the time) and said very quietly 'I am not mentioning unity at all'. As I had not introduced the subject and as Mr. Bevin did not seem to want to drop the conversation I said 'Many of our friends here feel that unity would follow within a reasonable time after our entry into the Alliance. Do you feel, Sir, that, with the defence situation straightened out, that might be the result'. (I did not refer to Home Rule and the war of 1914). The British Foreign Secretary kept on smiling and said that he hoped I wouldn't commit him to that extent with Mr. MacBride. He then said that he regretted the declaration of the Republic and that it was a great surprise to him when Mr. Costello went that far.

Mr. Bevin then spoke of the Taoiseach. He referred to Mr. Costello's cross examination of him in Dublin in the Trades Union case in which he was a witness.⁹ 'We lost the case' he said. 'Mr. Costello is a fine lawyer', he added, 'he handled the case very skilfully'. Mr. Bevin referred to the Taoiseach's visit to London last year¹⁰ and said that before his arrival he had had no idea that our new Prime Minister was the lawyer who had cross examined him in Dublin some years previously. He recognised him at once as he walked into the room in, I think he said, '10 Downing Street'. It was, he added, a pleasant reunion in different circumstances for each and they did good work together.

The guests were arriving for the reception and I took my leave. I wished the British Foreign Secretary every success on his Mission to North America. He thanked me warmly.