Letter from John J. Hearne to Seán Nunan (Dublin)¹
(Top Secret)

Conversation with the Secretary for the Navy

I have the honour to report a conversation which I had with Mr. Francis P. Matthews, Secretary for the Navy, on Wednesday, the 25th April, at the Pentagon.

Mr. Matthews expressed to me at the outset of the conversation his sincere thanks for the warmth of the sentiments expressed in the Minister's telegram to him on the Minister's departure from Washington on Good Friday. He said that it was very gratifying for him to receive such a message from Mr. MacBride.

I said that the Minister was deeply grateful to Mr. Matthews for his exceptional kindness and hospitability during Mr. MacBride's visits to Washington, particularly for the help and advice he gave in connection with Mr. MacBride's interview with President Truman.

Secretary Matthews spoke in unfeigned terms of the fine impression the Minister made in Washington. For himself, he said: 'Mr. MacBride impressed me greatly.' Of the visit generally he added: 'It has done a world of good.'

I recapitulated at Mr. Matthews' request the sense of the Minister's talk with the President (1) the necessity for a clear reaffirmation at the present time of democratic principles and ideals and of the objectives of the nations of the free democratic world; (2) partition; (3) arms for Ireland. I gave him the President's reactions as the Minister outlined them for us immediately after the interview. I said that Mr. Truman favoured a charter of human rights, democratic principles, etc., such as Mr. MacBride has in mind, that he adverted to the difficulty of preparing a draft that would be acceptable to all, but requested Mr. MacBride to go on to the preparation of such a draft. (I did not refer to Mr. Acheson's attitude, or his reference to the Ten Commandments, the Apostles Creed and the Lord's Prayer.) I referred to the President's sincere desire to see the partition problem settled and I said that our Government welcomed that expression of the President's friendly attitude and interest. On the question of arms for Ireland I said that Mr. Truman had referred to the difficulty of priorities in the matter of the supply of defence needs, the needs, e.g. of the North Atlantic Treaty countries, but that he expressed the hope that a way could be found to meet the Irish situation.

Mr. Matthews listened carefully during this brief recapitulation of the conversation between the Minister and the President. He seemed particularly pleased when I told him that Mr. Truman had taken occasion to express the gratitude of the Government of the United States to Mr. MacBride for the valuable support he had given to American policies in Europe, European economic re-integration, etc. at critical times during the past two years.

I made a passing reference to the President's introduction of the transatlantic air terminal question. In this connection I said that Mr. MacBride had placed some of the difficulties in the way of changing the terminal from Shannon to the Dublin airport before the President, but promised to inform his Government of the President's reference to the matter in their conversation.

Mr. Matthews made no comment on any of the points as I went along. He just nodded and smiled occasionally. At the end he said that the value of the interview was inestimable because of its friendliness and frankness.

I said: 'There has not been enough close top level contact of that kind either with the White House or the Department of State.'

'That's just it,' the Navy Secretary replied, 'but let's go on from here. There are prejudices to be broken down by friendly personal relationships and confidence.'

'As long, Sir,' I said, 'as Ireland has as good friends as you and the Attorney General and the Secretary for Labour in the Administration we feel that we have an entrée into the very heart of the Government which other peoples must envy.'

'And' added the Navy Secretary, 'you must not fail to use to the full the opportunity which that situation affords.'