Confidential report from John J. Hearne to Frederick H. Boland (Dublin)¹
'Conversation with Viscount Alexander'
(14.F.9)

I have the honour to report that we were the guests of Their Excellencies the Governor General and Viscountess Alexander of Tunis at dinner at Government House on Tuesday the 22nd October. I enclose the table plan for ready reference to the names of the other guests present on the occasion.

The Governor General has recently concluded his first official journey across Canada and conversation with their Excellencies was generally about their experiences in this or that part of the country. The tour had been fully reported in the press and on the radio; all Canadians had followed it in their homes with interest and happiness, and many with awe.

I was brought to Viscount Alexander after dinner. He kept me a long time. The Turkish Minister had just been with him and His Excellency began our conversation by referring to Mr. Alhan. 'A very worried man our friend the Turkish Minister' he said. 'The note from Ankara to Moscow today was very strong Sir' I said.² 'The Turks had better be strong with Russia' the Governor General said with sudden emphasis. Then he added: 'But let's talk about Ireland'.

We talked about the war, and Ireland's attitude to the war. I had introduced the subject of the war by referring to Field Marshal Alexander's campaigns in Italy. He said that he was glad it was all over, but that he hoped no one thought that touring Canada as Governor General was any less exacting than fighting a military campaign in Europe.

Inevitably, perhaps, Lord Alexander spoke of the number of Irishmen in British Forces during the war. I said that the official Irish view, according with the Hague Conventions, had been that nationals of a neutral country were free to enlist individually in the armies of belligerent countries. The Governor General said that he had always hoped that Ireland as a whole would enter the war. 'Our lovely country, our wonderful people', he went on, 'so easily led. They should have come in. But', he added at once, 'there I am talking politics and that is the one thing I am not to do according to my instructions'.

'Excellency' (this from me) 'who should instruct you or me not to talk to each other personally in your home about our own people?' The Governor General smiled, sat up straight (he had been half-reclining on a divan in the Chinese Room) crushed out his cigar, and repeated the word 'Who?' Then he went on: 'But why didn't you come in. If you had come in there was no concession (sic) that you could ask that you would not have got. We would all have been behind you.'

'Well, Sir', I ventured, 'there it is. We did not come in because we were not attacked. Some people think our attitude was just Mr. de Valera's personal policy as if he were a Fascist, or a Communist, dictator. He is nothing of the kind as you know. Like Mr. Mackenzie King, he is a great interpreter of national opinion, in fact, a personification of the whole people. He would no more have led the Irish people into the war against their wishes, than Mr. King would have tried to keep the Canadian people out of it. Mr. Roosevelt failed to bring America into the war. America was forced into it, so was Russia. How could any Irish Government have expected the support of our people on a war policy in 1939 or after? What would the moral appeal have been - the partition and subjugation of Poland?'

'But, Mr. Hearne, our people are so easily led'.

'Easily led? Our people have broken the hearts of all their leaders. We would have had another broken heart if Mr. de Valera had made the mistake of recommending war to the Dáil. He would have been defeated. National unity must be restored before our people can be asked to stand whole-heartedly beside Great Powers in a crusade for the independence and territorial integrity of small Nations.'

I then ventured to say that the war had established certain things not quite clear to our people before, namely, the reality of our independence in association with the British Commonwealth, and the goodwill of the British people even in their darkest hour. 'Great Irishmen like your Excellency may have a very special mission now, a very special contribution to make to the settlement of the question of partition. Your Excellency has scarcely made a speech in Canada in which you did not say "I am an Irishman". How we all envy you your power to influence our friends in England to take a courageous and sensible view of the future relations between Great Britain and a united Ireland. Look at the scramble for a last minute settlement of India. What are we waiting for? Until the danger is upon us?'

Viscount Alexander seemed greatly taken by my remark that distinguished Irish soldiers in the service of Great Britain might have a part to play in the task of persuading the British to put an end to partition. (I made no general point about the number of Irishmen in the British Forces during the war). Referring to the possible role of men like himself the Governor General said 'That is a most interesting view, and this a most interesting conversation'.

'There is one line, Sir, along which both peoples should be easily led, the line of mutual respect and confidence based upon the full recognition by each of the rights of the other, the right on our side to rule in the whole of our own land. That is the way to full co-operation in peace and war. What connections have we with other countries that are closer than those with our neighbour? Our neighbour's friends are our friends. Why is it sought to express or stereotype our relations in colonial forms that never suited the relations between the two mother islands. Our ties are different, stronger. Together our peoples founded the British Commonwealth and are its mainstay here in Canada, in Australia and the other Commonwealth countries. Our whole constitutional policy since 1922 has been directed towards progressively removing obstacles in the way of co-operation with those countries. And every step we took was opposed in London and the whole programme looked upon with suspicion as a conspiracy to prevent good relations whereas it was a sustained effort to make possible a real association with a Commonwealth of real Nations and to adapt the whole arrangement to new conditions of national life and a new international order. We shall never tire of trying. But it is time we got a little co-operation from the other side.'

If the Governor General had interrupted these observations I would have recorded his remarks at the appropriate place. But he did not. He fixed his eyes upon me, and grew more and more serious. Once when Squadron Leader Tollemache³ approached, bringing others to His Excellency, he saw that I hesitated and said: 'Please go on, these people can wait. We have real things to talk about. Please go on'.

At the end he said: 'Let's have many conversations like this as fellowcountrymen and fellow exiles'.

I never got that distance with the Earl of Athlone during his whole term of office.